Of Camels And Needles

[Admin]

Since this topic came up in our Family Gospel Discussion a couple Mondays ago, let us start a thread on it!

First, there are three accounts in the New Testament. They are contained in Matthew, Mark, and Luke. The full accounts do have minor differences, but there are a few significant differences as well.

Here are the three verses that seem to draw so much attention:

And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. ~ Matthew 19:24

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. ~ Mark 10:25

For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. ~ Luke 18:25

These verses seem to draw people's attention, and spark their wonder at what it could possibly mean.  Yet, if we keep these verses in context of the larger account, we can easily understand how they fit in.

[Admin]

I have seen a couple thoughts online about the possible meaning of this scripture. One of them being that the word "camel" was a mistranslation, and really meant a heavy rope, or cabletow from a ship. And to try and thread that through a sewing needle would be impossible.

The other common explanation is that the word "needle" refers to the small gate that was used to get into the city after hours. This gate was so small that a person had to take off their pack, and bend over to go through the gate. And, to get a camel through that gate would take God's own intervention. Great humility would be needed, to unload all our worldly desires, and come forward on our knees, etc. Another task that would take near divine intervention.

Of course, there is also the belief that the word "Camel" means camel, and the word "Needle" means needle, and there again, the situation becomes impossible. This is followed by the disciples asking the question: "Who then can be saved?"

And the Saviour responding that with God, all things are possible. This infers that salvation is really only possible with God, since all people have fallen short of the glory of God.

Of course, there is always the possibility that people then were the same as people now, and the disciples understood a much more far-reaching meaning of 'trusting in riches.' This would imply all the "riches" and desires of the world; all those things which a person would normally seek after, and not want to live without, including all those things we would call good. And certainly, to trust in our own beliefs of what good is, or our own ideation of good, would not compare to the understanding and wisdom of God. To give up all things, even that which we would deem as "good;" to accept all things good and bad, and still interact well, trusting only in God to save.

This also introduces the idea of the term "Kingdom of God" to have it's very own meaning. For, this teaching is different than the teachings of the Saviour, referring to entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven. Perhaps, if we understood the term "Kingdom of God" we may better understand the interplay of "needle" and "camel"?

[Chris]

"... to trust in our own beliefs of what good is, or our own ideation of good, would not compare to the understanding and wisdom of God. "

Trust in our beliefs and ideas of what is good when, 'we know nothing', seems quite silly to me. Yet, it is often what I do as I fall to the natural man, the ways of man; which inherently are to put selfish beliefs and ideas ahead of God.


" To give up all things, even that which we would deem as "good;" to accept all things good and bad, and still interact well, trusting only in God to save. "

It is interesting, and true, that in order to fully trust God we must give up all things, our wants and desires of the temporal. This includes the want and desire to trust in our understanding of what we believe is good.

Keep the faith and continue to trust God.

[Chris]

I remember when Peter actually walked on water after he saw that the Lord was doing it. He had faith and fully trusted in the Lord. It wasn't till he began trusting in his own understanding that he lost the faith and began to sink.

Matthew 14:25-31
25 Shortly before dawn Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake.
26 When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. “It’s a ghost,” they said, and cried out in fear.
27 But Jesus immediately said to them: “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.”
28 “Lord, if it’s you,” Peter replied, “tell me to come to you on the water.”
29 “Come,” he said. Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus.
30 But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, “Lord, save me!”
31 Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. “You of little faith,” he said, “why did you doubt?

A lot of us pray and receive guidance from the Lord and as we start to do it and follow His instructions fully focused on Him we are doing it, but then once we lose that focus on following Him and we start using our own understanding of what we believe we must do, this based upon our wants and desires, we no longer are following His instructions and we are now sinking. It is a form of doubt to trust in anything besides God. And so, this we must continue to work on, trust in God never doubting.

[Admin]

Mar 22, 2023 16:09:36 GMT Chris said:

It is interesting, and true, that in order to fully trust God we must give up all things, our wants and desires of the temporal. This includes the want and desire to trust in our understanding of what we believe is good.

Mar 22, 2023 16:15:12 GMT Chris said:

A lot of us pray and receive guidance from the Lord and as we start to do it and follow His instructions fully focused on Him we are doing it, but then once we lose that focus on following Him and we start using our own understanding of what we believe we must do, this based upon our wants and desires, we no longer are following His instructions and we are now sinking. It is a form of doubt to trust in anything besides God. And so, this we must continue to work on, trust in God never doubting.

This is so very true!

How often do we believe that we know what is actually "good"?
And further yet, can we give up "what we believe is good," and "what we believe we must do," and live according to what Father says is good, and what Father says we must do?

[Chris]

" How often do we believe that we know what is actually "good"?
And further yet, can we give up "what we believe is good," and "what we believe we must do," and live according to what Father says is good, and what Father says we must do? "


I think these are the type of questions we really need to be asking ourselves...

And not just ask. But actually try and give up, or let go, "what we think we know".

[Admin]

To help us understand the meaning of these 3 verses, let us take a look at the context in which they are found.

First, we notice that this teaching comes immediately following the Lord's teaching about receiving the Kingdom of God as a little child, or not being able to enter therein. This sets the stage for all those who would enter therein; if they do not receive this principle of the Kingdom of God, then they will not enter into the Kingdom of God.

And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

And Jesus said unto him: Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God. But if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Thou knowest the commandments: Do not commit adultery; Do not kill; Do not steal; Do not bear false witness; Defraud not; Honour thy father and mother.

And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. What lack I yet?

Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples: How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them: Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

...

Then Peter began to say unto him: Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee.

And Jesus answered and said: Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,

But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.

By taking out the three verse analogy, we can easily see the context of the teaching, allowing the meaning of those verses to come to life in plainness.

The best part is: Now we know what to do to enter into the Kingdom of God; no longer do we need to guess!

[Chris]

I'm reminded of this scripture, Matthew 7:13-14

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

If its hard to find, it must be very small. Like a very small doorway that one can only get through without baggage.

[Berrett]

The highest covenant is consecration or selflessness. It means we must give everything to the Lord's work. Money, everything we have, and all of our desires, appetites, passions, thoughts etc. So until we have that ideal in our heart we are not focused on Father and His work to the degree where that Heaven is within us. We must love God above all which will drive us to learn and keep His commandments, and hear and obey His Voice. I know I still have a lot of baggage to get rid of including false beliefs and desires. Lucky for me, Father is very patient and is Love.  Of course a rich man cannot become Heaven.  He must consecrate everything to the Lord to qualify.  

[Admin]

Mar 29, 2023 13:09:19 GMT Berrett said:

The highest covenant is consecration or selflessness. It means we must give everything to the Lord's work. Money, everything we have, and all of our desires, appetites, passions, thoughts etc. So until we have that ideal in our heart we are not focused on Father and His work to the degree where that Heaven is within us. We must love God above all which will drive us to learn and keep His commandments, and hear and obey His Voice. I know I still have a lot of baggage to get rid of including false beliefs and desires. Lucky for me, Father is very patient and is Love.  Of course a rich man cannot become Heaven.  He must consecrate everything to the Lord to qualify.  

So true!
I know I am constantly struggling to get rid of all that baggage!

If a person did put all their time, talents, energies, desires, thoughts, communications, and actions into serving the Lord, they would not have any money. Just having wealth reveals that they are investing those things necessary to have wealth, which means, they are not serving the Lord. The young rich man was not serving the Lord with ALL his heart, might, mind, and strength, which is keeping him from the Kingdom of God.

The scripture leaves out the details, perhaps so the reader can apply the teaching in whatever situation we find ourselves. The rich man does come to the Lord to ask, so something must have triggered that question. Because the rich man did keep all the commandments, it leaves it open for the reader to infer. And with the comment "trusts in riches"... we can definitely infer. We could infer that the rich man seemed to want to serve the Lord with his money, allowing his excuse that 'money can help' to be a justification. He had a divided desire, not pure. Maybe it was the fact that the rich man would not serve the Lord with all his heart, so he could keep his comforts? Because, if he served God first, he would not have time to get money or comforts. So, maybe it was not really the money that was keeping the rich man from the Kingdom of God, but maybe it was the fact that the rich man would not put the Lord first. Maybe it was the fact that the rich man trusted that his way of using his wealth for good would get him in? Maybe he should have trusted the Lord's way, not trusting in riches way. To reach the Kingdom of God, nothing can come between us and the Lord. Not even trusting in our way!

Definitely the next step up for the man who is keeping all the commandments!

[Admin]

Would this same principle apply to other worldly aspects than just money?

For example: Would this principle apply to popularity? What if there was a famous person, who kept all the commandments, and asked the Lord what he was lacking? What would the scripture say?

Would it say something like: Give up the popularity and focus on serving the Lord His way?

Would the rich man's response be the same: The popular person went away sorrowing, for he was very popular?

Would the scripture say something like:

Go and give up your popularity, put all that effort into helping people, and care about what God thinks of you; and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

The popular man went away sorrowing, for he was very popular!

And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples: How hardly shall they that are popular enter into the Kingdom of God!

And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them: Children, how hard is it for them that trust in popularity to enter into the kingdom of God!

The phrase, "trust in popularity," or "trust in riches," obviously refer to more than trust. Otherwise, the rich man would have no need to ask what he lacks! Putting our effort into popularity and riches, even if we excuse ourselves by the justification of helping others with those positions, is still against the teachings of the Lord, and will still block us from entering into the Kingdom of God.

On the contrary, if we give up our worldly ambitions, put all that effort into helping people, and care about what Father thinks of us; and come, take up our crosses, and follow the Saviour, then we will enter the Kingdom of God!

[Chris]

I like this example, where popularity is being substituted in for riches. It helps make it clear that the term, "riches", is not specifically money and physical possessions, but it is what is treasured; it is what the heart treasures.

I think it also goes well with this scripture:

“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

~ Matthew 6:19-21


And of course, one could substitute other terms for treasures as well, like popularity or riches or etc...

[Admin]

Mar 31, 2023 16:29:08 GMT Chris said:

I like this example, where popularity is being substituted in for riches. It helps make it clear that the term, "riches", is not specifically money and physical possessions, but it is what is treasured; it is what the heart treasures.

I think it also goes well with this scripture:

“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

~ Matthew 6:19-21


And of course, one could substitute other terms for treasures as well, like popularity or riches or etc...

I agree. It is a great way to isolate the principle, and implement the solution!

[Admin]

Jesus said unto them: With men this is impossible, but with God, all things are possible!
~ Matthew 19:26
~ Mark 10:27
~ Luke 18:27

So, only doing things God's way, will make it possible for us to inherit Eternal Life.

What is God's way?

Putting it all together: If we want into Heaven, then we must be children of our Heavenly Parents, and like heavenly children, do it the way our Heavenly Parents ask us to do it.

What shall I do to inherit Eternal Life?

If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments: Do not commit adultery; Do not kill; Do not steal; Do not bear false witness; Defraud not; Honour thy father and mother; Sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor; And come, take up the cross, and follow me.